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	<title>Comments for Jeff's Post</title>
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	<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Jeff Staddon on Business and Technology</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:41:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Myth of Software Estimation by mythorfact</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>mythorfact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-940</guid>
		<description>In my Experience, not theoretical, estimates are done by people who do not do the work, influenced by fear of appearing uninformed, mitigating the actual work to be done to sponsors so they will appear to be competent while those poor souls who have to live up to whatever some space cadet has imposed upon them are quietly having nervous breakdowns, the ones who actually care...woe to those who object or try some sanity for they will be forced out (after the job is done) and the insanity will continue as long as programmers/PMs/name your title are valued on their talk instead of the walk. Get a grip man, are you going to allow your wife to remodel your home without some idea of costs/risks/time vs your personal budget? Where the variables usually come in is each person&#039;s own personal agenda how much attention they can garner in doing exactly what they want and it is usually avoidance of actually working together and valuing each other. It is a ME thing which is pervasive to keeping a job now whether one is a programmer or a politician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my Experience, not theoretical, estimates are done by people who do not do the work, influenced by fear of appearing uninformed, mitigating the actual work to be done to sponsors so they will appear to be competent while those poor souls who have to live up to whatever some space cadet has imposed upon them are quietly having nervous breakdowns, the ones who actually care&#8230;woe to those who object or try some sanity for they will be forced out (after the job is done) and the insanity will continue as long as programmers/PMs/name your title are valued on their talk instead of the walk. Get a grip man, are you going to allow your wife to remodel your home without some idea of costs/risks/time vs your personal budget? Where the variables usually come in is each person&#8217;s own personal agenda how much attention they can garner in doing exactly what they want and it is usually avoidance of actually working together and valuing each other. It is a ME thing which is pervasive to keeping a job now whether one is a programmer or a politician.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Requirements Myth by mythorfact</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-requirements-myth/#comment-939</link>
		<dc:creator>mythorfact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=60#comment-939</guid>
		<description>Oh where did you learn all of this, Obie One? Espousing drivel that a 1 year IT intern should know? PHDs in the field of programming has driven all kinds of how in the world do programmers communicate with non-programmers since the 1970s. Nothing new in this post except maybe You are learning Your job. So glad you have had a revelation. Looks are more important than the darn system working right????????Yeah focus on that and you will go far...Not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh where did you learn all of this, Obie One? Espousing drivel that a 1 year IT intern should know? PHDs in the field of programming has driven all kinds of how in the world do programmers communicate with non-programmers since the 1970s. Nothing new in this post except maybe You are learning Your job. So glad you have had a revelation. Looks are more important than the darn system working right????????Yeah focus on that and you will go far&#8230;Not!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Myth of Software Estimation by Jeff Staddon</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Staddon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-910</guid>
		<description>The key issue is that software development is an R&amp;D effort.  One of the best parallels is medical research.  Medical research costs a lot of $$.  It&#039;s been done for years and it&#039;s a very advance field.  But, they still can&#039;t quote a price.

It would be nice to know that for $10 billion invested I&#039;ll get a medicine that will do exactly...  But it doesn&#039;t work that way.  In medical research, what is purchased is specific processes and people.  The results are variable.

Building software has far more in common with this model than most of us are willing to admit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key issue is that software development is an R&amp;D effort.  One of the best parallels is medical research.  Medical research costs a lot of $$.  It&#8217;s been done for years and it&#8217;s a very advance field.  But, they still can&#8217;t quote a price.</p>
<p>It would be nice to know that for $10 billion invested I&#8217;ll get a medicine that will do exactly&#8230;  But it doesn&#8217;t work that way.  In medical research, what is purchased is specific processes and people.  The results are variable.</p>
<p>Building software has far more in common with this model than most of us are willing to admit.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Myth of Software Estimation by Miklos Hollender</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>Miklos Hollender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/the-myth-of-software-estimation/#comment-909</guid>
		<description>Jeff, you just don&#039;t get it.

It&#039;s not time, it&#039;s money. Here, I have this nice used car for you. It&#039;s really cool. But I won&#039;t tell you the price before you sign the contract. You don&#039;t know how much will you pay. Would you buy it?

Estimation is not the right word. It&#039;s quoting a price, that&#039;s the right word.

It does not matter that it&#039;s not possible to do it accurately, we must do something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you just don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not time, it&#8217;s money. Here, I have this nice used car for you. It&#8217;s really cool. But I won&#8217;t tell you the price before you sign the contract. You don&#8217;t know how much will you pay. Would you buy it?</p>
<p>Estimation is not the right word. It&#8217;s quoting a price, that&#8217;s the right word.</p>
<p>It does not matter that it&#8217;s not possible to do it accurately, we must do something.</p>
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		<title>Comment on REST for Corporate IT by PJ</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/rest-for-corporate-it/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-906</guid>
		<description>Yes, PUT and DELETE are &#039;hard&#039; to support.. but you can at least support then as extensions to POST, which is very commonly used and supported by browsers, so no extra effort.

Besides, putting modification primitives behind POST is just hygenic - else a naive webcrawler can ruin your whole day. Once there was a wiki that had &#039;delete page&#039; as a GET method... and it met a CEO&#039;s PocketPC &#039;cache this site so I can read it on the airplane&#039; software... resulting in a very unhappy sysadmin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, PUT and DELETE are &#8216;hard&#8217; to support.. but you can at least support then as extensions to POST, which is very commonly used and supported by browsers, so no extra effort.</p>
<p>Besides, putting modification primitives behind POST is just hygenic &#8211; else a naive webcrawler can ruin your whole day. Once there was a wiki that had &#8216;delete page&#8217; as a GET method&#8230; and it met a CEO&#8217;s PocketPC &#8216;cache this site so I can read it on the airplane&#8217; software&#8230; resulting in a very unhappy sysadmin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on REST for Corporate IT by Bob Gregory</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/rest-for-corporate-it/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-905</guid>
		<description>I disagree with you throughout.

1) The consistency of SOAP is its only benefit - there is no agreed mechanism for service discovery in REST, and the lack of standard formats is a hindrance - not a solution to the well-known problems of SOAP. ATOMPub  is emerging as an excellent standard for POX services, but JSON, while popular, has no means of defining or validating document schema and this makes *real* SOA harder to implement. 

When implemented properly, SOAP has a lot going for it, but implementing it properly is difficult (read up on the WSS or WSE standards - zomgwtflololol).

2) REST, lacking a formalised message structure, would almost certainly save a few bytes on the wire if you wanted to pass a &quot;3000 character sql statement&quot;. SOAP would produce a larger message, particularly if you chose a light-weight format for your REST message. Incidentally  3000 characters isn&#039;t a large message at one byte per character.

3) Don&#039;t pass SQL statements to your web server. srsly dude.

4) Defining a service solely in terms of GET operations is *not* RESTful. It&#039;s an HTTP service, but fails to capture the basic idea of REST - that we can represent an application&#039;s state as HTTP operations over a set of uniquely identified resources.

I&#039;m not a purist by any means, I&#039;m a dirty, filthy hacker - but a GETful service is not RESTful, it&#039;s just simple.

Furthermore, REST (sometimes) tends to scale because it differentiates between operations that change resources, and operations that do not. If all your GET requests are idempotent, then you can cache hard at the application boundary. 

If your GET requests are really updates in disguise, then it needn&#039;t scale any better than SOAP &#039;cos you&#039;re still doing RPC, except that you&#039;ve dropped any sense of rigour in your request/response formats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with you throughout.</p>
<p>1) The consistency of SOAP is its only benefit &#8211; there is no agreed mechanism for service discovery in REST, and the lack of standard formats is a hindrance &#8211; not a solution to the well-known problems of SOAP. ATOMPub  is emerging as an excellent standard for POX services, but JSON, while popular, has no means of defining or validating document schema and this makes *real* SOA harder to implement. </p>
<p>When implemented properly, SOAP has a lot going for it, but implementing it properly is difficult (read up on the WSS or WSE standards &#8211; zomgwtflololol).</p>
<p>2) REST, lacking a formalised message structure, would almost certainly save a few bytes on the wire if you wanted to pass a &#8220;3000 character sql statement&#8221;. SOAP would produce a larger message, particularly if you chose a light-weight format for your REST message. Incidentally  3000 characters isn&#8217;t a large message at one byte per character.</p>
<p>3) Don&#8217;t pass SQL statements to your web server. srsly dude.</p>
<p>4) Defining a service solely in terms of GET operations is *not* RESTful. It&#8217;s an HTTP service, but fails to capture the basic idea of REST &#8211; that we can represent an application&#8217;s state as HTTP operations over a set of uniquely identified resources.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a purist by any means, I&#8217;m a dirty, filthy hacker &#8211; but a GETful service is not RESTful, it&#8217;s just simple.</p>
<p>Furthermore, REST (sometimes) tends to scale because it differentiates between operations that change resources, and operations that do not. If all your GET requests are idempotent, then you can cache hard at the application boundary. </p>
<p>If your GET requests are really updates in disguise, then it needn&#8217;t scale any better than SOAP &#8216;cos you&#8217;re still doing RPC, except that you&#8217;ve dropped any sense of rigour in your request/response formats.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Right Answer: How to Talk to a User by Lec</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/the-right-answer-how-to-talk-to-a-user/#comment-877</link>
		<dc:creator>Lec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-877</guid>
		<description>Очень полезная вещь, спасибо!!  (Very useful thing, thanks!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Очень полезная вещь, спасибо!!  (Very useful thing, thanks!!)</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Requirements Myth by /++//++//++//++//++//++/ &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-requirements-myth/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>/++//++//++//++//++//++/ &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=60#comment-875</guid>
		<description>[...] (Iterate 1-5 as needed)&#8221; jeffspost.wordpress.com&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Iterate 1-5 as needed)&#8221; jeffspost.wordpress.com&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why I Support John McCain&#8211;A Geek&#8217;s Analysis by Bill Benson</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/why-i-support-john-mccain-a-geeks-analysis/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=41#comment-874</guid>
		<description>Good article, thanks. I had not seen the article about Biden&#039;s history of plagarism and delusions before, that is very interesting. Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, thanks. I had not seen the article about Biden&#8217;s history of plagarism and delusions before, that is very interesting. Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Requirements Myth by Vijay Patel</title>
		<link>http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-requirements-myth/#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay Patel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffspost.wordpress.com/?p=60#comment-873</guid>
		<description>Your post resonates with my own experiences. IMHO, the biggest obstacles to the domain discovery phase are:

- Developers prefer writing code, than understanding the domain
- Business users/stakeholders want to see *results*
- Creating and delivering flexible prototypes takes too long

We have a product that attempts to tear down these obstacles, and:

- Allows developers to rapidly create prototypes using code
- Allows business users/domain experts to interact with the prototypes
- Allows all parties to understand and share the domain

The product is called &quot;TrueView&quot;, and I believe it tackles a very important part of the software design process.
You can learn more about it at www.evolving-software.co.uk.

Cheers,
Vijay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post resonates with my own experiences. IMHO, the biggest obstacles to the domain discovery phase are:</p>
<p>- Developers prefer writing code, than understanding the domain<br />
- Business users/stakeholders want to see *results*<br />
- Creating and delivering flexible prototypes takes too long</p>
<p>We have a product that attempts to tear down these obstacles, and:</p>
<p>- Allows developers to rapidly create prototypes using code<br />
- Allows business users/domain experts to interact with the prototypes<br />
- Allows all parties to understand and share the domain</p>
<p>The product is called &#8220;TrueView&#8221;, and I believe it tackles a very important part of the software design process.<br />
You can learn more about it at <a href="http://www.evolving-software.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.evolving-software.co.uk</a>.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Vijay</p>
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